daringheart13 - Welcome to the board. You are not alone my friend. The politics on the BOE (coupled with finding out the organization wasn't what they claimed) really pushed me over the edge. But I will say that it does get better. Look forward to reading your story.
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
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78
Brand New: Currently Totally Devastated
by daringhart13 ini'm brand new to the board.
long time, "big shot" elder, ....taught at km school, conventions, etc.
yeah, i know it means nothing....but it gives you an idea of how deep i've been a jw.. i don't even really know what to write at this point.
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IT'S OFFICIAL - New Elder's Manual by end of 2010
by sir82 inper a "top secret, confidential, burn this after you read it" letter to all boes, dated march 2, 2010, but not read in our congregation until this past week:.
new "kingdom ministry" school for all elders and ministerial servants, to be held (in the us anyway) between november 2010 and january 2011.. 6 hours of jaw dropping tedium instruction for ms, 9 for elders.
ms session to be held on a sunday, elders on friday and saturday.. the "super secret surprise", for elders only: a new textbook will be released to be studied at this "school".
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Doubting Bro
I'm actually suprised it took them this long!!
Sir brings up a good point. I wonder if they're going to get the elders to sign something saying they will not disclose the contents. I know they always told you not to show the book to anyone but nothing in writing from the individual elder. Also, I'll bet they will require sitting elders to turn in their old book to get their new book. When you are deleted (I love that term because it doesn't matter if you step down or are removed) you are supposed to turn in your book. So, it would make sense that they collect the old books.
Man, I do not miss sitting in those sessions! When I was a true believer, I used to leave the sessions thinking I was the worst person ever because they just made me feel like I could never do enough. Now I realize it's all part of the control mechanism.
Look forward to reading the review this fall!
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Possible Blood Doctrine Change: A Hypothetical Conversation with all JWs
by daniel-p injw>"but you lived anyway!".
jw>"...".
jw>"well, they'll be ressurected.".
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Doubting Bro
I see daniel-p's point about just how many folks are effected by the blood ban, but I would argue that the civil service issue affected as many. I know lots of folks in my parent generation that went to jail in the US over Vietnam when they could have been spared with performing civil service at home instead. Those boys who went to jail when they were 18 are still elders and such and didn't leave over the issue. I guess the main difference is the loss of life (obviously not even a real comparison).
I guess the closest comparison would be the allowance of fractions now vs the previous complete ban. I don't know a single person that left because the WTS allows "fractions". As a matter of fact, when the big change was made, there was a look of relief. Think of all the folks that could have been saved in the past if the now allowed fractions were allowed then! I know that much of the fractioning science is relatively new so maybe that portion of the ban didn't matter as much.
Let me ask, how many lawsuits have there been? I know the Hughes suit but Canada's courts seemed to have come down on the WTS side. You know the US courts will favor a religious body over an individual due to the 1st amendment. And since the US is by far and away the most litigious country in the world, I don't think the WTS is worried about losing too much.
I do believe that the perception of major liability is very concerning to the WTS. I think that countries in the EU, Russia and other places view the WTS with suspicion and have honed in on the blood ban as a reckless endangerment (which I agree). The old version of the WTS would try to get themselves thrown into jail. This version doesn't have any fight in them and if there's a change in policy, its probably going to be to try and be seen as a legitimate religion.
I agree with metatron in that most of the rank & file will say that "blood is still bad but the WTS can come out and say it due to Satan's wicked legal system". When I was a congo secretary, I was shocked at the number of folks that refused ALL fractions on their blood cards. I saw probably half of the congregation's because JWs will often provide a copy for the congregation's files in case of emergency. I also saw a lot of folks VERY confused as to what to do. I always recommended praying (of course) about it but when asked what I did, I gladly told them I said yes to everything. Immediately, folks that I had that conversation with decided if an elder said yes, then they would too.
Bottom line in my viewpoint the best that can be hoped for is making RBC, WBC & plasma fractions and allowed and keep the whole blood ban for another 5 to 10 years and then finally dropping. But, there will still be a large number that will continue to refuse those.
I really don't think they would lose membership over the issue. I think there will be a shrug of the shoulders and folks will continue on.
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New light on blood?
by Mickey mouse inthis is prompted by barbara's new article at freeminds and a message someone sent to my youtube account a month ago.. there are rumours that there will be "new light" this year about blood transfusions.
if this happens, i for one will be speaking up and asking who is accountable for all the lives lost due to the wt's death dealing policy.
this is an opportunity for all those who still have some connections with jws to make people think..
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Doubting Bro
And, its pretty much dropped anyway. You can take 100% of blood if it's broken into "fractions". I could see them moving WBC, RBC & Plasma into fractions and keeping the ban. They moved hemoglobin into the "fraction" definition a few years ago. I remember being shocked at the time because I knew how big of a component hemoglobin is.
I could see them either 1) changing the definition of fraction to include WBC, RBC & platlettes and/or 2) allowing autologous (your own blood) transfusions which they really are already doing with some of the cell saver type of procedures that recycle the patients blood and even store it for a "short" time.
The policy is so confusing to the average JW that many are not aware of what they can and can't do.
Remember, they used to ban organ transplants and 100% of blood (including vaccines). They reversed those stances. They can pretty much do what they want. They've always sort of worded it as an individual choice anyway (although we know its not). The courts here in the US I don't think would hold the WTS liable for damages at this point. But I'm sure the Legal department would love to see the ban go away because there's no guarantee that courts in the future will stay out of this issue.
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-07-10 WT Study (DEDICATE JAH)
by blondie inhe will even restore his loyal ones to their youth so that they can benefit from his care.
more happiness than dedication ourselves to anything or one else--even a spirit-directed organization?.
about making the choice to belong to jehovah.. comments.
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Doubting Bro
The illustration about the father and adopted child was sick. A parent's love is supposed to be unconditional. To ask a child to pledge love is a business relationship, not a family. They don't have to earn a parent's love, it should be there. Any parent that would do such a thing is a terrible parent.
Actually, 1 John 4:19 says that In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins NASB
Even the NWT says - As for us, we love, because he first loved us.
It's strange because on one hand, they speak about God's love yet on the other hand, paragraphs such as this one treat God as an unreasonable tyrant to whom no one can ever please. So which is it WTS? I know, the WTS is the unreasonable tyrant and they want all JWs to daily pledge their alligence. They're the ones that want the plegde of alligence before you're considered part of the "worldwide brotherhood".
Blondie - great point about the slave! I have no idea why they used that illustration but I'm sure they were betting that no one would read the surrounding verses.
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Russian Tract campaign: "Could It Happen Again? A Question for the Citizens of Russia"
by TJ - iAmCleared2Land inhttp://www.jw-media.org/rus/20100226.htm.
for immediate release.
february 25, 2010. jehovahs witnesses address their fellow citizensrussiaon february 26-28, 2010, throughout russia, from the chukchi peninsula in the east to kaliningrad in the west, a special campaign is taking place.
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Doubting Bro
You know the guys in Brooklyn/upstate NY are rubbing their hands together like old Mr. Burns from the Simpsons over this chance! They need some persecution to fire up the troops! They did something similar in France when they hammered with the back taxes. I don't think that changed the stance of the French government one bit.
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a BIG shoutout to jwfacts
by poopsiecakes inim sure this has been mentioned many times on this site but i wanted to express my personal feelings of gratitude to paul at jwfacts.com.
paul, your site changed my life.
even though i discovered it when i was already disfellowshipped and really didnt have the intention of going back, i was still a fierce jw apologist.
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Doubting Bro
Paul, just wanted to add my thanks for your site. Your discussion on the blood issue is the best I've read on the subject. Logical, factual and extremely well resourced and written.
If I'm ever in the land of Oz, I'd love to buy you a beer mate!
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BOE on Disfellowshiped Relatives
by JWFreak inagain...please do not request a pdf scan these are interbranch copies not the same ones sent to the congregations.
jwf.. january 21, 2010 .
to all bodies of elders .
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Doubting Bro
freddo - were you in my congregation??LOL your take is dead on. That's exactly how it plays out with the exception that elder 4 and 2 are buddies with elder 5 and also happen to be secretary & COBOE. Issue dies with whinny elder 1 & 3 going behind the others back to the CO. The CO talks to the COBOE on the next visit on the side and decides that nothing needs to even be discussed. Again, politics but this time working in favor of 5.
JWF - Please don't let folks discourage you from posting this stuff. While it may not be super exciting, its important for those who aren't used to reading these letters to see for themselves the bureaucratic nature of how the individual congos are run. The low level managers have almost everything dictated to them and are cogs in the wheel to be used and disgarded as the higher ups see fit. Same goes for the rank & file.
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BOE on Disfellowshiped Relatives
by JWFreak inagain...please do not request a pdf scan these are interbranch copies not the same ones sent to the congregations.
jwf.. january 21, 2010 .
to all bodies of elders .
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Doubting Bro
JWF - thanks for posting this!
I don't really see in change from the previous policy. The BOE was supposed to "review" the persons qualifications and determine if he still qualified. In other words, if the BOE has been looking for an excuse to whack the guy, this was the perfect chance. On the other hand, if the person is well liked and has influence, then the BOE will say that he still qualifies. I've seen this happen numerous times. I always felt like it would be unchristian to help out your own kid regardless of status in the congregation. I couldn't see how throwing someone out on the street is "loving".
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Circuit Overseers
by Eiben Scrood insome circuit overseers leave lasting impressions either for good or bad.
others i barely remember.
three that had the most impact on me were rodricks (that's how it's pronounced, not sure of the spelling), casino and shepherd.
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Doubting Bro
darth - I've had R.L. Jones before. I liked him but not everyone did. He could come out with some crazy stuff! I remember arguing with him over something and he's the only CO I've ever met who actually conceeded that he was wrong and apologized. I didn't know what to do!